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Chapter 10. History of Tathagatha

Truth exists forever.

If apples do not look like apples,

If apples do not have the taste of those,

We can not call them apples.


I did not notice you are a tathagata when I saw you.

> Right.

What do you think the reason that people do not recognize a tathagata when people see you.

> It is mind.

What is the difference between the mind with your sight and the mind of people's sight?

> It is that the man of bright mind recognizes easily the fact in the story just heard passing by, the man of dark mind does not know the truth in a fact by looking into the fact with his own eyes.

Then what is the secret of lightening up our mind which makes us to see the fact?

> It is possible for you to enllighten yourself about the truth of goodness and do not forget it.

If we are willing to learn and know the meaning even now, where can we learn it and see it?

> You can learn and you can see it through the daily life.


If someone who believes what you said, follows you and wants to learn from you, would you teach him all the things you know?

> Yes.

If they want to become Buddha at present life, could you let them see Buddha's mind?

> I can not tell that kind of thing.


What do you mean by that "You can not tell"?

> Results come out through the process. It is not right to tell results in advance without seeing the process.


What can you do for them in this era?

> I can teach them the way of cause and effect when they want.


Can not anybody else do such a thing as you do?

> No.


What is the difference between you and they?

> It is truth.


What is the difference between your truth and their truth?

> It is the difference between the man who can see and the men who can not.


What makes the difference?

> Even though you hear the same word, it is easy to understand if it is from the man who can see the world; It is difficult to know whether it is true or not, if it is from the man who can not.


By what process, could you see the Buddha's way?

> First, I attained a good mind, second, I came to meet lonely things endlessly, and the third, I deserted myself.


Now is it impossible for anybody else to see Buddha without undergoing the process you have done?

> Yes.


What is the proof of "Yes"?

> So far there have been a lot of ascetic devotees in the world. However a Buddha has not come out yet from them because the way to reach a Buddha is far and strict.


In this period, if a certain man has a strong will to become Buddha and he says he will accomplish it, do you

believe that it is impossible?

> No.


What kind of teaching can you give to the man like that?

> First, he must enlighten his mind, then he must see his mind and finally he must achieve good thing in the fact.


What is a good thing?

> It means that he must keep his sincerity and accomplish it.


We do not know anything, moreover, how can we know whether we have sincerity or not?

> Right. You have to see that matter when you serve the world.


What result  can the man who serves the world get?

> He will get virtue.


What is virtue?

> It means that good mind is created.


What is the difference between the man with virtue and without?

> It is like the difference of eyesight when we see things.


If a man accumulates virtue sincerely and wants to see the world, can anyone else see the world in that way?

> Yes.


What is the solid proof to support your saying so far?

> You shall see the proof after you serve the world with your sincerity.


Thank you. Now, I have learned many things from you. But I have not known your history. Could you tell me your background now?

> Yes.

Who taught you and what kind of ascetic practice did you do?

> I taught myself. Even though I tell you the process of my ascetic practices, it is difficult for you to understand unless you experience it. But I can tell you this with not hiding at all.

It takes lots of time and needs a lot of effort for a man to get a good mind through the world and to become Buddha with that mind.


Then Is this the story based on your experience?

> Yes. Long long time ago, I was able to get a good mind through the world.


What is a good mind that you said?

> It is conscience and courage by way of current expression.


Do you believe that Buddha's way started from conscience and courage?

> Yes.


What is this result of conscience and courage that you have spoken of?

> After I saw conscience I could take care of myself; after I saw courage I could live right along with the things in the world.


What is the result of your keeping yourself and taking care of the world?

> I could be free from reincarnation by my virtue, owing to this I came to get eternal life.


Does it mean your body never dies and exists forever?

> No. My body has changed countlessly. However my soul has never been scattered and stayed without changing. Thus I could be born again and over again with the original mind. The reason why my mind could not be Buddhas's mind is my virtue colud not reach that of Buddha. When I tried to know Buddha's way, my body got so old that I died. When I was born again, I happened to meet another world. Finally as my virtue came to know Buddha's way, the world made me climb over the enormous suffering. One of the tests was to let me enjoy wealth and fame. The world made me be born surrounded by alcoholic drink, women and meat, and forget what had happened in my past with affection and music. However I was not able to be contented in such surroundings. Among people no one knew the questions accumulated in my mind. Oneday, I happened to see another world which was different from mine. There, some people came of low birth, some people got emaciated from hunger and others were dying of diseases. It was not until then that I had seen the questions in my mind.

 That made me discard my small duty (affection) and hit the road to serve the world's duty (sincerity). However, there was no one who has known the right way in fornt of me, this frustrated mind had to wander around the world. The more I listened to the people, the less I could know truth and facts. Wherever I went, I could not meet any teachers. At last I got a fact. It was that I hear through myself.

 Even then the only thing I knew was confidence. I had such a burning enthusiasm to seek after truth and to accumulate virtue in the world that I could fight against a coldness, hunger, loneliness and despair. However time resulted in nothing. At that time I saw myself having neither will nor expectation for the first time. My body began to be full of silence such as seeing the world of death. From then, the message from heaven was heard through my mind. After then, however I saw the world, agony did not gather. Even though time went by, fantasy did not arise. It was not unitl then that I realized that mind with nothing was Buddha's mind. People did not believe my word, besides, they did not want to follow me because they had never seen Buddha before. From that time, I began to see myself who was lonely and this kind of thing let me know what I should do in the world. Immediately, five desires in myself disappeared, my mind became as bright as clear sky, when my mind reached all the things in the world, I could see the meaning of them. From that time, I started to look for people and preach the law of cause and effect, I allowed people to call me a tathagata.

Now, whoever wants to be the same as I, they should not forget sincerely what happened to me, and they should know what is right or wrong in themselves. If they want to know the result of all the things in the world, first of all they should understand the law of cause and effect. Whoever wants to know this law, they should have the enlightened mind first and this will be possible after serving the world. I should say that good roots are the origin of Buddha.

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